Nerds of a Feather

Living in a foreign land can be lonely, especially when it means leaving a safe space of shared culture with those you grew up with. But lifelong friendships can be found in unexpected places, and common ground can exist between people from two very different backgrounds. Recorded in late 2025, Wendell sat down with Jeremy Wockenfuss to talk about how they met and connected over a shared love of horror movies, sports, and Applebee's wings. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Hello, and welcome to the Freshwater Yankee Podcast. As always, I am your host, Wendell Riley, and today we have a special episode. This is someone who I consider to be one of my best friends, someone who I've known for a couple decades and who I love dearly. You know, he's somebody that I met at a time when I was sort of thrust into American culture. I had left the uh the safe environment of Morgan State University where I was surrounded by other international students. This was when I uh got a job, my first job out of college, and um it was a it was a culture shock for me. So I'm happy and and proud to say that I have the the great Sir Jeremy Wackenfuss on today uh on the Freshwater Yankee podcast. So, Jeremy, thank you for taking time uh to be on this episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

My pleasure, buddy. And let me tell you one thing right off the bat. I love you too, man. And I think that it would be uh I wish that dudes would be free to say I love you a lot more often to their buddies.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

You know, I I agree with you on that. Um and it's something that as I've gotten older, I I I try to like be embarrassingly open with people about um, you know, if I care for you, I will I will try to tell you that because life is short and as as we get older and we start losing people close to us, things that we don't say sort of hang over us. And so yeah, I I think um dude love is is um is good, uh it's healthy, um, and I hope it's something that we can pass on to our kids as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, one of my more crotchety friends um recently had a health scare, and he and I both uh one of our friends from college passed away about, I'd say, eight years ago, just from out of nowhere. And he's adopted this whole thing as well. Same thing. Life is short, you never know. How about we just uh really appreciate our our friends and be open with how we feel about them.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Well, I appreciate that's one of the things I I appreciate about you is that you know we could talk about anything, whether it's sports or movies or just like struggles that we're having. So um, and I so again, thank you for being on the show. So let's jump in. Tell me a little bit about where you're from and sort of your journey so far.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, uh so uh my name is Jeremy Waukenfuss. I was born in Delaware, uh, grew up most of my life in Pennsylvania, uh right on the tri-state border of Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland, to the point where uh some summers after I got a bike in the 90s, I would ride my bike to University of Delaware and hang out on Main Street, and they had an arcade and a Dungeons and Dragons store. So grew up in in Pennsylvania and then went to college uh in Maryland. So at that point, I moved to Maryland. Uh really made a lot of great friends at uh at my college, and then uh yeah, then after that, my first job out of school was the same place as your first job, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, so shout out to uh AeroTech.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Everybody around here, especially in Maryland, it seems like everybody knows somebody that at one point worked at AeroTech.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yes, yes. And uh uh, you know, I think it's worth mentioning that um the owner of the Baltimore Ravens, uh Aerotech is actually one of the companies that he started. So um, so and you you played uh baseball in college, is that right? I did.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I played uh baseball and soccer in high school, and then in college I played baseball. And then also in the 90s, uh you could get away with playing intramural sports, uh, even though you're not supposed to. So we played hockey, soccer. I played on a horrible football team, uh, but baseball was the number one love for a lot large portion of my life.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Awesome. Also, so athletics obviously have run in your family. So tell tell me a little bit about your dad and and um what he did.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah. Uh so my dad played professional baseball for about 20 years. He had a huge long minor league career. Uh, was drafted by the Washington Senators back in the 60s, and uh got traded a couple of times, uh, and then finally got called up in 74 for Detroit, and then he played for Detroit until '84 got traded to Philadelphia. Uh, he wanted to be closer to home because uh we lived right outside of Philly. So uh yeah, baseball's been in my blood for as long as I can remember, and that's all my life. All I wanted to do uh growing up was to play professional baseball to the point where it was a bit of a hindrance because I didn't really think of anything else. Uh, and unfortunately wasn't good enough for professional baseball, but but still loved it and got that from him.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, and and just for the uninitiated, uh Detroit is uh the Detroit Tigers. Yes. Um, and then the Philadelphia Phillies, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

That is correct. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yes. So I I listen, I love America. I love all sports and I love American sports. Um, but I think baseball is is one of the ones where I I still have a ton to learn. I've been to baseball games and you know, I've obviously asked you a a ton of questions about the sport. But um it is it is still truly, I think, America's pastime, and it it has um a lot of meaning for for many, many people. So I think, you know, I I always like I'm in awe when I, you know, talk to you about your dad, but also your your baseball career uh uh through college because I love sports, but I have never been accused of being like overtly athletic. So uh I like to play stuff, but you know, I've never been on a team or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Um you and I played together uh after college soccer, and you were uh you were a hellacious defender.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Uh yeah, I mean and also um I think that honestly was the first time that I actually wore uh boots or cleats. Um we in Trinidad we call them tugs. Um that was the first time I actually wore boots because growing up, um you couldn't find cleats in my size in Trinidad, right? So I wear size 13 shoes. And so most of my life when I played, uh I played barefoot. And so when I was crazy to me. Well, yeah, I mean's even crazier is that when I came to the US and you know, wanted to play in like um uh co ed leagues or intramural leagues or all of that stuff, I had to relearn how to kick a ball with boots on. And and I'm still less proficient kicking a ball with boots on than I am kicking a ball barefoot. Um so that you know, but it's I'm sure there are many people from other countries who can relate to that, you know. And I I remember like going to the I I don't even remember where I bought my first pair of boots. It was like a cheap, probably like a$15 pair of boots. Um, but I was like, man, it's so easy to find stuff in America because you know, I mean, I I didn't even try when I was a kid, uh, just because it just wasn't something that was available. But we digress. Um I left uh Morgan State University and you know that while it was uh an American institution, it was still fairly insulated because I was surrounded by other Trinidadian students and Caribbean students and even African students. And so it was sort of like a transitional, uh it's like a way station where you are you are in America, but you still have the opportunity to partake in or be surrounded by culture that you are accustomed to. And and so um when I graduated and I uh got hired to work at a predominantly uh white young company, uh it was tough. It was tough for me to transition because uh and we we had heard about this, you know, um when I was in the process of applying for jobs, you know, and I'm sure a lot of students have this frustration. We were sort of lamenting the um the fact that uh we didn't get a ton of um companies coming to recruit at Morgan State. And it's certainly a lot different now. I mean, the university has grown tremendously over the past uh couple decades since I've left. Um But part of the the challenge that I think many graduates had coming from an HBCU, and this isn't just a Caribbean thing, this was an African-American thing as well, is that integration within, you know, predominantly white uh companies was a challenge. And so I certainly felt that way. So I was kind of like two steps removed, or at least coming at it from a different point of view. But yeah, it was it was tough for me and it was kind of lonely, you know. I didn't really, you know, I didn't really know anybody, and it was harder for me to to make like friendships, meaningful friendships, because I I didn't really know the culture. And so I I remember very distinctly one day, uh, I think we had like a team meeting or something like that, because you were on another team, and I had some action figures on my desk, and then you came over and you were like, Oh, this is cool, and let me check this out. And you were looking at them, and then that I think that was the the start of it. We just started talking about toys, and then you know, that sort of led to like discussing movies and and TV, uh, and we listened to some of the same music as well. I think when I look back on it now, I am still surprised as to how quickly we bonded over stuff, even though we had obviously grown up in two different worlds. Um so that's kind of my recollection of it. And I I always tell this story, but it'd be it would be interesting to hear like your version of like the way we met.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, um, I came my experience was opposite from yours in one major way, and that is um, so I went to high school in Pennsylvania, which was pro predominantly white. Um, we only had a few black kids in our school, uh, black students. And then when I went to UNBC, it was kind of more of the same. Uh on the baseball team, we had one black player who is unfortunately the the gentleman that was that passed away from what we were talking about earlier. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, his name was Thomas. He was an he was an awesome kid. Uh we got along so well. I lived with him for a couple of years uh after college. And one of my funniest recollections from him is that uh this was back when Tai Bow was huge. And I had my own room uh in this small house that we lived in after college, and I had a uh DVD player and a TV in my room. And I remember coming back from work one day, and he had been in my room doing Tai Bow because I had a DVD player and a TV, and he sweat so much, my floor was soaking wet, it stunk. I was like, Thomas, what are you doing, man? You're killing me. So, but again, I digress. Um, so I can't I grew up from a place of a place of privilege where I was I was a white kid in a in a white school, and then in college, I was a white kid in a mostly white team. And I will say UMBC was very diverse. Uh, we had a huge Asian population, we did have a big black population, uh, but with my major and with the baseball team that I played in, I I didn't interact a lot with a lot of minorities. Um then I came to AeroTech. And again, AeroTech, like you said, predominantly white, a lot of uh white men, white women. Um, I do remember seeing you because you were this extremely tall black man with a very thick accent. And one of my first recollections with you is that I don't know the basis upon which this happened, but you had to interview me. You had to ask questions. Oh work. And that was my recollection of our first real interaction was talking. And I remember I think that you were kind of not totally comfortable because you did kind of keep to yourself. You were very internalized, you didn't speak very loud. And my first thought was, man, this guy's really shy. It's like, what is going on with this guy? But like you said, uh, like the action figures, the art. I remember you had you had uh doodled some things and just pinned them to your cube, and I thought that was the coolest thing because I have no artistic ability whatsoever. And I remember you drew a couple for me that I put on my cube that I actually still have in my office.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

So um, and then I just remember thinking, I think we got talking about movies, and we get talking about, of course, horror movies because growing up, I don't know where they came from, but I had this massive case of Betamax movies uh that were all horrible transfers. You could barely see what was going on on screen, but it was awesome because that's all we had. So I grew up with uh hundred about a hundred beta tapes. Each one had three movies each, and 80% of it was horror. So as soon as you and I got talking, and and I don't know how or when it happened, but I found out that you were a massive horror geek like me. Yeah, I mean, that was it. It from there, it was just like, okay, this guy is somebody that I'll absolutely have no problems talking to for hours on end. Um, and that's when we would go to Applebee's. We started going to Applebee's for uh wings and beer and yeah, happy hour. Happy hour, yeah. I mean, we went to happy hour there, we went a couple other places, but the bees was kind of like the big one for us.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

When we walked in the door, they would start pouring our drinks. Like that's how much we used to go. And that was like the coolest thing. And it it really felt like a safe space for me because I, you know, I I could really just be myself and we would talk about all kinds of stuff, and um, and it was just fun, man. It was it was it was a ton of fun. And and when you think about it in the context of like all of the things that we had growing up that were very similar and kind of ran on parallel tracks, even though we lived different lives. Like you were an athlete, I was like um, I guess more creative, right? So sketching stuff and writing bad poetry and and different things like that. But um, you know, I was a theater geek too.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Uh that's right. Yeah. And that that was something that I tried to get my kids into because I had so much fun doing theater in high school, uh, to the point where I would go, I would have baseball practice and then or a game, and then right after I would just drive directly to the high school uh for rehearsals or for tech. And I remember stinking to high hell being dirty as anything, but I didn't care because I was just I was having the time of my life.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, and and also I think um uh body odor is an accepted part of theater life. Um I don't know how accepted it is for people that had to stand like right next to me while I was talking to them, but well, I played uh Mother Ginger a couple years ago in the Nutcracker, and the costume yeah, the costume that I wore had not been washed in like two decades or something ridiculous. Because if they try to wash it, it will literally fall apart. So you just wear the sweat of like 50 other men like who came before you. So yeah, anyway, I I still have like I still get itchy sometimes when I think about that. So let's talk a little bit about um our our collective love of horror because one of the things that we started doing together was going to horror conventions. Like I went to my first horror convention with you, and I think it was the same thing for you, right? Yeah, horror find. And we were like my kids in a candy store, just like geeking out over all the people in cosplay and meeting um all the different stars, even like um people who were like in really terrible independent horror films. Like we were like, Can we get your autograph?

SPEAKER_01 17:09

You know, yes, can we watch your film? Can we yeah, please, please.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Like we used to see the same people over and over, the different and we made friends, like we became friends with some people who used to go to the same cons as us every single year, still friends with them on Facebook and stuff like that. And I always tell people like horror fans are some of the the most like gentle loving people because there's a lot of like shy kids who just grew up watching horror because they weren't doing other things, you know what I mean? We so we snuck into a VIP party, I remember, with um the Cenobites from Hellraiser. Uh, and I think uh George Romero was in there that night. I don't know how we got into that room, but man, I was just like, Judah Friedlander was there too.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

I've told this story a million times because it it was it's less the Cenobites, I remember, and more George Romero. Oh yeah. We were just walking looking for a spot to go in to hang out with people, and there was this double, it was a suite with the door a little bit open, and we heard noise. So we were just like, hey, let's just walk in. And we walked in, and there everybody was. And um I remember it so clearly in that George Romero was almost holding court. He was sitting up on a chair, yep, and there were probably 12 people that were just sitting on the floor, uh cross-legged, staring up at him, like it was story time at an elementary school in a semicircle. And he was just telling these amazing tales about directing night and dawn and day, and he could not have been more gracious and more lovely. He's one of my favorite experiences with uh somebody in that community. And I remember you and I together, we sat down, we were right next to the the windows with about 10 other people, and I I couldn't believe I was sitting there listening to George Mara talk about making sports.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

So so let's jump ahead to times that we kind of remember more. So um, you know, one of the things that we connected on really, really early on was sports because we were both in uh in like in the working world in Maryland when the Ravens like just got good. Because I remember like coming to Maryland like in '96, '97, my um, my best friend from growing up, uh Kevin, he was at Morgan State a year before me, and he was like, you know, so there's this new expansion team here in in uh in Baltimore, and they have a good defense. The offense is terrible, but they have a really good defense. I was like, okay, you know, but then fast forward to 2000, and the Ravens actually won the Super Bowl. And that was the year we were both at AeroTech. So we started actually like really following, or at least I did, started really following the Ravens that year. And wow, what what a ride to see a team that struggled so badly on offense. So it was never a given that the Ravens would win the Super Bowl. So then we were like Ravens fans for the like another decade or so. But then in uh I think in around 2012, because of the fact that NBC Universal actually, well, I don't think they were NBC Universal back then, but they they finally got the rights for the Premier League. So I started following Chelsea around 2012. And like I would like casually like, you know, tell you about stuff, but I think it was around like right before COVID, you actually like started watching Chelsea. It was it was it during the COVID season?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

It was right when they got pull-o-sick. I got very interested.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Because I I never was I I didn't understand the Premier League. Um my experience with professional soccer was uh FIFA. And I remember you could you could choose I thought that it was all about the national teams. Um, and this is what happens when you grow up in America and you're so insular. Um, I didn't know that there were club teams all over the world.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

So I I couldn't understand why if I wanted to play with, say, Messi. How come he's on two different teams? Right? Isn't it just Argentina? So I didn't understand it. And it's there's so much information there. There's the league, and then there's the I understand it a lot better now. And that's basically through all the conversations that we've had about it in the last handful of years.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I'm watching and watching all the games. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

But I I didn't, there's no playoffs. What? And if you if you end the the season number one in the standings, you're the champion. How's that work? There's supposed to be playoffs, and but yeah, but that's what the champions league is. Okay, cool. So I guess they play the champions league right after the season, and that's kind of the playoffs. We'll know that goes on concurrently with the next season.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah, and no American sports are set up or played like this. Relegation and promotion threw me for a loop. I had no idea. And as an aside, I I truly, truly, truly think that the nadir of American sports is tanking, tanking for draft picks.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

If if we could just introduce promotion and relegation into American sports, that would all go away and everybody would be excited to win rather than to lose to try to get the draft pick. But uh but yeah, so the when when Polisic started playing, it was I know that there were Americans overseas in the past, uh Landon Landon Donovan, I think.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Donovan played uh briefly in Europe. Um uh Tim Howard. Uh I love Tim Howard.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Who's the striker that you told me was a pretty darn good American player?

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Um Clint Dempsey. Clint Dempsey, yes. I think he played for Fulham for a little bit, and he was a he was a stud for a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, but it so I started getting into it when I read about Polsick going to Chelsea because Chelsea was one of the the biggest Premier League teams. Uh and like you said, we could watch it. So I was kind of tangentially watching it, but I wasn't too much into it until it was either the season of or the season before they won the Champions League.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

And it was when Lampard got fired and they hired Tuchel, right? Didn't he come right after Lampard? That's when I really started following it. And I haven't had this kind of attachment to a team since back in the late 80s with the Philadelphia Flyers that I would watch on Philly 57, that which is a channel I barely got, so I'd have to watch it through snow on the TV screen. But I could hear it so I could tell what was going on. Um I love the Flyers, uh, but now I kind of feel that same way about the blues, about Chelsea, because I don't I don't know what it is. Uh I I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that you and I now have another thing in common, so it's just another excuse to to text back and forth and to talk about these things, but but yeah, now I I absolutely adore it.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, and and but the thing about football that that a lot of Americans, uninitiated Americans, or people from all over the world who've never really experienced like um that format is that you can define success in different ways. And that's one of the things that frustrates me about America is that you're either the only winner and then everybody else, your entire season is a waste of time. And I'm like, that that cannot be right, you know what I mean? Like the this idea, like I remember the Patriots when they went undefeated the entire season and then they lost the Super Bowl, and it's like, well, that sucks. But but so in a way, like that is to me, that's the ultimate failure because you have nothing to show for it other than you almost you were almost perfect, and then the Dolphins are like, or you know, they're like, yeah, you know, or whatever, you know. One more year of immortality. Yeah, exactly. But in the Premier League and in other European leagues, you could come fourth and you're great season.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Throwing a party, absolutely, which we just experienced last year.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

And that winners win at all costs mentality. You're right. It is, it was driven into our brains as kids. The one of the first things that I remember hearing was second place is first loser.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

And there's the scene in Karate Kid 2 where the going way back, where the uh the evil sensei destroys the second place trove, and he and he yells at the kid, second place is no place, you're off the team. And yeah, yeah, second place, no, you have to win. That it's win or go home, it's win or nothing. But like you said, you finish, or if you finish what, 17th and you don't get relegated, that's the cause for a party, too. So yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Or you could be like Spurs and finish 17th and and still win a true uh European trophy because uh you have multiple campaigns that you run, and that that's the other thing is like the season is always interesting because you're managing, you start the season managing at least three campaigns. If you're good, you manage four campaigns, sometimes five, you know, if you have like a club World Cup year or something like that. Like it's always interesting, and you don't have and and you know, for lower tier teams, like bad teams have to deal with being bad no matter what, right? But but you still have the opportunity to maybe upset a big club in a in a one-off game, um, you know, in the in the Carabao Cup or the FA Cup or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

And you and I message uh quite frequently about soccer. And one of the things that that we talk about almost as much as our successes is a fourth-tier team that in a cup competition beat a first-tier team and just watching their fans or their supporters and the team on the field just losing their minds.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Or even better, when they do the draws and uh a third-tier team learns that they're gonna play a Premier League team, it's like they were just told that they're gonna be expecting a baby, they just explode.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

It's like it's the coolest thing, or or some yeah, some fifth-tier um Spanish club and they get to play Barcelona, you know, and and you're like as as fans, you get to go and watch your team play Barcelona, and that in any other circumstance will never happen, right? Like that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

It's so great because it it's it's almost like uh you get to watch a brand new sport as you get older because at least for me, I mean for both of us, when we were growing up, there was no internet. Uh in America, obviously, there's no internet. There was no real nothing you could that I saw that you could read about the Premier League or about international soccer. So I knew absolutely nothing about it until uh I started learning about it from you or from online. I mean, nowadays uh kids can look this stuff up and you know it's at the tip of their fingers. But when we were growing up, you didn't have any access to this this information. So to actually learn all this so late in life and to pick up a new uh team that you really support and that you love this late in life, it's just really cool. And I'm still learning things about the sport, about how to play the sport, uh, it's it's amazing how intricate it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Let me ask you a little bit about just switching gears a little bit, let me ask you about what it was like sort of experiencing Trinidadian culture through me. Because in all other ways I experienced American culture through you. Has your relationship with someone who's not from the US, like how has that expanded your your worldview, if if at all?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

So uh I I didn't have any experience with uh anybody that wasn't an American, really, um until I met you. Um we we didn't really have any exchange student. We had one exchange student in high school, but shame on me. I I really didn't think to ask him about his experiences uh or where he came from, even. Um I didn't I didn't know him too well. But anyhow, but when we got to AeroTech and I started talking to you, I didn't really know anything about Trinidad. I didn't know where it was in the world, I didn't know what kind of place it was. Any any kind of experience I have with anything outside of the US is really only through movies, like where they uh a character travels to one place or travels to another place. Um yeah. So when I went to Trinidad, the first thing that we did was eat doubles, which I thought were awesome. I remember getting as soon as we got off, I got off the plane and you were there, we went and got doubles, like right outside the airport. Yeah. Um still doing it. One of the things that that because I don't think of these things, it blew my mind that uh uh central air conditioning wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Um, but thank thanks to you, you the room that you had me in, it did have an air conditioner uh in the window. So that was a saving grace for me. Um but I remember it was hot, uh, it it was uh there were tons of cars on the road.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

And you you would not not what you think of not what you think of when you think of a Caribbean island, right? You don't think you're gonna see like traffic.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, you think you're gonna you you think Caribbean Island uh in in film, you go to a Caribbean island, it's this gorgeous beach with this blue crystal water and everything's beautiful. Um, and then going to Trinidad, not that there weren't beautiful parts, but we were in Trinidad. It was just like in any other country, you're not gonna spend your time at only the places that are fit to be filmed on cinema.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Um and I remember the one thing that that kind of freaked me out. Well, number one, it was super hot, but what I would go to sleep and I would crank the AC. And I remember waking up the next day to uh it looked like hundreds, it might have been dozens, hundreds, thousands of just dead bugs all over the floor with their wings off. And I could not figure out what the heck happened. I didn't know if a swarm ran into the ergonist unit and got spit out, but um, I remember playing basketball with you. That was a ton of fun. So I just remember it was very hot.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Yeah, I think those were rainflies. So rain flies, they have a very short lifespan. They they um there's always a ton of them, and then they all die at the same time and their wings fall off. So sorry, sorry, we didn't mean to to freak you out like that. But but I also remember that you were a little um, you were a little freaked out about uh what we call burglarproofing, which is where all of our windows have like a gate on it, essentially. Um because we and now we do, right? Now we have home security systems and stuff like that, but you still have to have burglarproofing. It's just part of the culture, and you kind of grew up with it. Like even my mom's house, you have burglar, you have your regular windows, and then you have this gate on it, and it like some of them there's a lock, and then you could open the burglarproof if you need to to get like full access. So air can always flow through it, but a thief cannot.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

And I mean that's on the commercial, yeah, exactly. And do I am I remembering this correctly?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

That when we were driving, you were like, yo, lock your doors because if you're in a traffic jam, people can come out and just yeah, you know, uh it's one of the things it's a it's a strange thing, and and I'm not I'm not disparaging my my country in any way. Uh I think any any Trinidadian is sort of used to this. You you just have to kind of always have your wits about you, and you know, you just have to be aware because like most places, there there is uh some level of economic inequality, there's crime. Trinidad, for the most part, is a a very safe and fun place. But we also are taught like how to keep it safe and fun. Yeah, there's there there are criminal elements, and and you know, unfortunately, because of a number of reasons, like geographically where we are in relation to South America and stuff like that, you know, the drug trade has sort of um become a little bit more pervasive in our society, and there are many social ills that come with that. But it's just one of those things where I don't think you think about that stuff when you when you are fed sort of a narrative of what a Caribbean island is like. Because I don't think most people are ready for Trinidad. And I and I mean this in like in the best way, because even the good things about Trinidad, they're very unexpected to a lot of people. Because, like you said, it's not just a beach, you know, lazy kind of people just kind of walking around, some Rastafarian smiling at you, saying, Welcome to Trinidad, man, or you know, or some bulls bull crap like that is is literally like we are a melting pot. Trinidad is in your face. There's music everywhere, it's loud and like it's is busy, and there's like food, and it's just like it's it's fun, but it's like it's a sensory overload.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

And that just you just reminded me um of one of my first experiences with Trinidad in America was when we went to that carniv went to carnival in DC. Yeah, yeah, and that blew me away. I could I had never experienced anything like it. It was just non-stop dancing and joy and music, and every once in a while somebody would come over to you with a water gun and you'd open your mouth and they'd squirt something in your mouth. I don't know what it was, but it didn't kill me, so it was acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah, it didn't kill you yet. Um, to to my my uh American listeners, maybe don't be so open to having somebody squirt something in your mouth, at least nowadays, you know. I was bought in 100%, man.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I when you said carnival, I remember you inviting me to carnival. And in America, I think of carnival as something that gets set up in a parking lot of a church that's like a fundraiser for the church, where it's these rides that all stink and they're they all seem like if you if you push them with your elbow, they'd crumble and fall over.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

So when you said carnival, that's what I thought I was getting myself into. Yeah, and then I get there and it's just you're you're marching behind, and and tell me if I'm wrong here, but I remember marching behind a bunch of huge trucks with sound systems.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

And they just boomed this, you could feel the bass coming through your chest, and it completely blew me away. I had no idea, but it was one of the one of the best surprises that I can remember because it was just it was so cool, and it was very accepting. And I tell you one thing, I experienced something I'd never experienced before, which was being the minority. Uh yeah, that and and I it kind of felt and it's kind of when I went to Trinidad, same thing. I felt like I was the minority for the first time ever, and it felt kind of cool. I never once felt like I was in danger, I felt safe the whole time. Yeah, it's just kind of neat being the the the one person that was a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, yeah. And it and and and I I love the fact because I I had forgotten about that, to be honest. But I love the fact that you were able to experience that in America, right? Yeah. So, you know, I I would encourage anybody in the US, like find a festival, find something like that and go to it. Because it might have the same name and you might have some type of association with that, but it's I promise you, it will be very different uh to what you experience. And and most trainees will be like, that's not even like that's like a fraction of what it's like to be in Trinidad for Carnival. Because as opposed to just being there for a few hours, imagine doing that for like two weeks in the run-up and then being on the road behind a truck for you know juvet and then carnival Monday, Carnival Tuesday, and then last year. Juvet is uh so it's it's a French word, it's J apostrophe, O-U-V-E-R-T. But that is um Sunday night into the early morning, dawn of Monday. Where so you know, in on Monday and Tuesday, you have what we call pretty mass. So all the ladies dress up in the colorful bikinis and stuff like that. Juvet is what we call Dutty Mass, which is dirty mass, and that's where people dress up like devils, and you get you cover yourself in in like paint and oil, like blue paint and oil and all kinds of stuff, and it's like really grimy and filthy, and everybody's like dancing in the street, and it's like 4 a.m. And you know you're not you're going all the way through until the sun comes up. That's when it ends, and then you go home and sleep for a few hours, and then you put on your pretty costume, and then you come back out.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

But as DC carnival had a little mixture of everything because I do remember some of the devil stuff, but I also remember a lot of uh ladies wearing a little, yeah, which was nice to my 25-year-old. Which went a long way.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Yeah, it's a little that goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

But but this this is why it's so cool. Like you've been my best friend for uh over 20 years now. Yeah, I'm still learning. I I didn't I didn't know so many of those things about Carnival, and I it's just it's so cool to and bringing it back to kids. My kids uh went to one is in college now, but one went to uh high school, and and my daughter is currently in the high school. It's a very diverse school, which is fantastic. They they get to have friends from all different backgrounds and different cultures. Uh so it's it's a far cry from my time growing up. Um, and I think it's wonderful. I think it's great that they get to experience uh different people.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Yeah, for sure. And I mean it just makes for a more interesting life. Well, look, man, this has been a fantastic conversation. It's been a ton of fun, and I do want to bring you back on. My producer Jesse said that we need to um we need to do another episode about just movies. Um, but I think we'll save that for later in the season because I don't want to turn off too many of my listeners too early on. Anytime you want me back, man, I'm I'm here for you. Yeah. Uh Jeremy, this has been an absolute pleasure and thank you, man. I love you to death. Um and um I I really appreciate this. And uh do you have any anything you want to leave our listeners with? Uh in because, you know, we'll have people from hopefully the US, um, uh people from Trinidad listening to this, but also people from all over the world.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Well, I mean, I I I feel it's I keep going back to the fact that it's it's just so crazy that we met, uh, that there were so many decisions that went into us being in the same place at the same time, and then just our love of art brought us together. But man, watching what you've been doing all these years has been so cool and so much fun. And I always feel so proud because we started at AeroTech, and then you were in the financial sector for a little bit, and then you went to uh Virginia Tech, right? And well, yeah, Radford. You went to Radford, you got you were a huge fan of the Virginia Tech film. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

I did a I did a lot of drinking uh in and around Virginia Tech, yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, and then and then with when you called on with Moonbot, and I remember that you and I used to have long conversations on the phone, uh just talking about where we're going and where we've been, and then you went to Moonbot and I came down and visited you at Moonbot, and I thought it was just the coolest thing in the world because I love art and there's just art all over the walls. And it it it was crazy to me that you there was so much talent in that one room. And and then after Moonbot, then you went to LSUS Shreveport, and I thought it was so cool that you were uh giving speeches for graduation, and I was so proud of it to the point where I would I would show your speeches to my kids and guys look at Uncle Wendell, he's talking in front of a massive audience. And my mom is also a massive fan of yours, so she went through this journey with me as well. Yeah, and then and now you have a podcast, and it's just I I just think that it's been so much fun watching your journey and and being able to experience it. It's it's really a privilege, and I know that you're not even halfway done. I know that there's so much more that you're gonna do, and I'm here for the ride, man, and I love you to death. It's been a privilege and it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Listen, I appreciate that. And I I I you know, one thing I will say, I I you you have always been like steadfastly just uh like a fan of the work that I do and and I appreciate that. I don't mean that in a way that where it's like, you know, I I mean that in the way that I know that you are always rooting for me, right? And I absolutely I'm always like excited to share stuff with you because you know I think you get it, you understand it. Um and you know, even even in the things that are challenging for me in this journey, like I know that I could talk to you about those things too because you can relate to them or you are at least willing to listen. And so um, and I feel the same way too, man. Like I look at you and you know, the the stuff that that you and Pam do and and watching Alex and Emily just do their thing and just be awesome. And I'm I sit back and I'm like, oh, this so this is what raising a kid in America is all about. I'm like, I need to get my stuff together.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

It's so much fun, man. It is so much fun being parent. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Yeah, I mean, and listen, I I am always in awe of like the the your your unit because y'all y'all do it right. And um I appreciate that. I mean that. I mean that. Yeah, and then so so I look up to you and um you know I think I'm uh maybe a little over a month older than you, but you know, uh it's just it's it's it's it's weird to meet somebody who you just can connect with in a in a deep, meaningful way. Um and and and know that you know you have my back and I have your back. And you you've been there in tough times, you know. The the road that I've traveled is it has been a ton of fun, but it has not been an easy one. Road.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You work hard, man.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah, and and so there are times when I would ask for help and and you were there, man. And so I I I truly, truly appreciate that. Um so uh just know that you know any any success that I have with any uh any things that I'm fortunate to experience, there's a a group of people that I take with me everywhere, right? And and a lot of those people are from at home, um but you are one of those people that are in that group. So wherever I go, just know that you are there with me, just because all the support and the experiences that we've had together uh through our lives. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

No, it means it means everything, man. It really does.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Well, on that wonderful note, um, again, I want to say thank you, Jeremy, and I want to say thank you to our listeners. Um uh please uh like and subscribe and all that good fun stuff that I haven't figured out how to talk about yet. Um that was it, you got it. All right, good, good, good. And um we will see you on our next episode of the Freshwater Yankee Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Pleasure, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Stevenson Riley. Our contributing producers are David Macmillan and Lauren Leon McMillan. Music was provided by Peter Sandy of Home Based Productions, and I am your host, Wendell Riley.